A Reply To JohnBoy
You know, most times when I get a comment that I feel is unwarranted, I try to sleep on it before I respond. The reason I wait is that I want to avoid the usual first reaction denouncing the criticizer. The next day I’m usually able to respectfully disagree with my accuser and/or accept all accusation as truth. Many times I find that I misread the comment or misconstrued the tone of the criticism. So a lot of the time I am glad I chose to wait till the next day before replying.
A couple days ago I get the following comments from JohnBoy – a semi-frequent commenter on my blog.
Yea Mani, ya know I is a man following your blog here for de longest. I use it to get a pulse of TnT. After I just make a trod down to de rock, I have to say you typify what is wrong wid Trini. My ppl have no sense of basic understanding of economics or from a macro view or human social view. You complaining bout this and that and by no means is Trinidad a perfect place. My view however is that most of the problems lie with the population of Trinidad. Is Trinidadians who committing crime right? That is the first thing ppl does say how crime so bad. It bad! But who committing crime? And I never get a chance to respond to the idiot who say Panday was de best Prime Minister Trinidad ever had. Doh mean to call him an idiot but wha really get mih is that you agreed. Of course u entitled to your own opinion. Hell is your blog! But when as a supposedly educated fella make statements that support stupidity I will choose to voice my disdain in your blog if you would allow me. Basdeo Panday was de best allya say? Now I know for sure that there is pandemic of amnesia down on de rock! Basdeo Panday ya say? Mani, I cant say I expect better from u cuz I doh know ya personally, but Basdeo Panday was de best?
De talk is about creeping dictatorship. So when a leader decide he party need new blood and he decide to make changes he is a dictator right? Because he have to make decisions not everybody like. Ya mean like when Panday get rid of Ramesh who was telln him but de corruption going on in de UNC. Ya mean like dat? Thanks to tha best Prime Minister in TnT we had a splintering of the NAR, to form tha UNC and then de UNC splinter again to form COP and one name keep reappering in de middle. Well yes! De best Prime Minister. I was reading all these months but didnt feel qualified to say nutten until ah touch down on de rock and after havn done so ah seeing how one set a ppl here talkn a set assness! Ah have 1 question: Ah want anybody here tell me how many nations among the G10 offers their citizens free tertiary education? G10 is “considered” to be 10 of the world’s richest nations for anybody not in de know.
The Basdeo Panday thing I can forgive him for somewhat. Other people also seemed to misunderstand Ed’s comment so I’ll go over it briefly. Someone named John commented on my post “Indecent Proposal” saying, “Everyone knows that he is the best Prime Minister Trinidad ever had during 1995-2001.” Ed responded to that saying, “Have to agree with John. Panday was definitely Trinidad’s best Prime Minister between 1995 and 2001.” I have to admit that I was a little puzzled by that statement coming from Ed seeing that he’s the same person who keeps asking why Bas is not in jail. Then I realized that Ed had picked up on the silliness of the statement itself. Bas was the “best Prime Minister Trinidad ever had during 1995-2001″ because he was the only PM during that period. I remarked to Ed later in that post that I got his joke and in my post “A Letter to John” I said this:”Ed agreed with you when you said that Panday was the best Prime Minister Trinidad ever had during 1995-2001. Let me say that I agree with you too. No other Trinidadian Prime Minister at that time could compete with him. It was almost like no one else existed.
Both Ed and I are saying that Basdeo Panday was the best Prime Minister during 1995-2001 in the same way that a man who runs a race all by himself can call himself first. I think I’ve explained this enough. I hope when you see how obvious this was and how mistaken you were, you will feel just a little silly. Next time my brother, please read the post and comments in it’s entirety then do what I do, take a chill pill and then read it again. Don’t just go off and people they talking assness. Just as you say you’ve been reading for a long time and you should know my feelings about Basdeo Panday. But anyway that is not what I came here to discuss. If daiz all I wanted to talk I woulda handle that in the comments.
Secondly you say that I typify what is wrong with Trinidad. Me, brother? If I do typify what is wrong with the average Trinidadian, in what way? Because I’m complaining? It’s my right to complain. A few months ago you remarked that instead of complaining, I should give suggestion. I will tell you now what I told you back then. If the government can’t do the work, I “suggest” they leave. They’re the ones who told us they had all the answers to our problems. Now it’s apparent that this is not so. In my humble opinion, they should lef the wuk to people who could manage. Yes is Trinis what doing the crime, but they told us they can fix it, didn’t they? Or do we live in some kind of parallel universe where politicians don’t make election promises?
Are you new here? Because this talk about a creeping dictatorship didn’t begin with the constituency screenings. This has been an issue for over a year now (as far as I am aware). The screenings fiasco, just made it more apparent. By the way, if you think that this was all about bringing in “new blood” you are incredibly mistake. Why remove all these strong outspoken people like Diane Seukeran, Ken Valley and Camille Robinson-Regis and replace them with an entire slate of back-benchers? And let me ask you this, why no poll on the Ministers? You hear more complaints about the government ministers on any given day than about MPs, and yet no Bill Johnson poll on the ministers? This year we’re going to top 1,500 murders for this 5-year period, and no one bothers to ask us, “Hey, what allyuh think about dat Martin Joseph”? New blood? Something to just me doesn’t add up.
Did I say anything was wrong with free education? I am very thankful for free education, but what does that have to do with what you’re talking about?
By the way, I’m still waiting on you to tell me what is why I “typify what is wrong wid Trini”.
17 Responses to “A Reply To JohnBoy”
By boysieringo on Oct 16, 2007 | Reply
But Mani boy yuh go buss a blood vessel on these fellas! I thought I handle that for yuh in de comments. Sometimes the distractors/detractors are not worth the energy. So back to my question about Devant? Someone questioned why I’d raise a wasp’s nest over him being a canidate and make things bad for “we” party. I think it’s cause I know him personally and therefore I don’t judge him only based on what gets printed in the media. I think he’s bad for the party in terms of integrity and accountablity when it comes to representing all citizens equally. What do you think??
By Chennette on Oct 16, 2007 | Reply
boy, no internet at home and I miss out on more comment confusion? i thought that best PM thing clear up sooo looong now.
I seriously don’t understand when it became problematic, or indeed symptomatic of T&T’s crisis, to complain and criticise. The only people who don’t like complaints are the ones who try to absolve the politicians from responsibility. For everyone else, it’s an opinion, freely expressed. And ALL politicians, from any party, are liable to such critique – if you don’t want to be held responsible for finding the solutions, don’t run for office.
By bandwagonist on Oct 16, 2007 | Reply
my response to d post first…
the Manicou Report… Like ah Police Boots on yuh Corn
i doh tink more needs to be said
boysie… u sounding like Valley on Manning dey…
(snicker)
I totally agree with the comment on Devant tho… I don’t think that it was wise to put him up as a potential MP… everytime I see the name I keep hearing ‘the statement’ so imagine my feelings when I saw him nominated…
my take on it is that this is somewhat representative of what is wrong with T&T’s politics… the other parties have their characters also… I just can’t imagine why the COP have him on the frontline…
It is a question that Mr. Dookeran needs to answer when he walks around asking me for his VOTE…
doh worry I have a question for Vassant too… Where d RICE? and i thinking about a Smelter one for Gyan…
By JohnBoy on Oct 16, 2007 | Reply
Well boy! Ah could tell mih whole family ah reach now. Mani dedicate a whole blog in response to me! Well yes! At least I know ya reading. For ya Basdeo Panday clarification I must say that went right over my head and boy it did bother me ever since I read it. Glad to know it was what it was. As far is de crime situation, it terrible nobody could deny that. There are all sorts of reasons for crime and I know one thing, no government in de world could address all the reasons. If a mad man decide to kill he gyal and de whole family, what any govt could do bout dat? And as a policeman I know personally put it, how can you deal with crime with an ineffective judicial system whose member bawlin dictatorship, predjudice and persecution when the elected govt of the day tries to change anything about it? How can the govt make any significant changes to deal with crime when they don’t have the required 2/3’s majority to implement much needed constitutional change as exeplified by the issue with the CCJ, which is now being stalled by the same man who was part of de initial process in de first place. Dem fellas playing politics wid ppl lives. It was vital to point out the achievemnts in education because 1.) I dont think ppl really appreciate what that means for us as a developing nation and 2.) before people could lift themselves up, they must have ooportunities to do so and with the wealth of opportunities for training and education now, who still want to tief and kidnap just plain wotless. We should lock them up far far away and hang de murderers! But wait we still have to answer to de Privy council and not have de CCJ as the final court of appeal. As far as a poll for MP’s and not Ministers well last I remembered, we dont vote for Ministers! If somebody say we need change, I for dat! Tell mih what is de change, how to change it and who changing it. Ah hearn who want de wuk to change, what they think should change, but not how to change it. Is a secret awa? No party can fulfill all your fantasies and to date I dunno any govt that fulfilled all wha they promise! Could things be better? Hell yea! But I also know they could be much worse. Jack Warner could be running de country. Remember he?
By Anonymous on Oct 17, 2007 | Reply
Your comment about the lack of polling on the performance of Ministers is a very important point. It should go together with the question about a poll on the performance of the prime minister himself in specific areas such as:
i. Vie-ki-vie foreign relations;
ii.Directionless industrial development
iii. Hostility to the environmental movement a la George Bush
iv. Illiteracy in high office
By Mani on Oct 17, 2007 | Reply
Boysieringo, boy, sometimes I feel I does just have to reply. I was coming to answer your question about devant yuh know, do feel ah forget. I was extremely disappointed when Devant Maharaj was chosen as a COP representative. You know the man personally? Don’t get me wrong, Devant Maharaj has done a lot for Indo Trinidadians. He has won many lawsuits against the Government because of discrimination. But sometimes his conversations are too peppered with race and he tends to see race where it doesn’t exist. I really wish the COP had chose someone else.
Chennette, I think you said it very well. Let me echo it here, if you don’t want to be held responsible for finding the solutions, don’t run for office. If you can’t stand the heat…
Bandwagonist, I have to wonder if DM was the best they coulda find? I figured someone just waved the possible outcomes and figured they had more to gain by including him. The rice, lol.
JohnBoy, first of all, the Government doesn’t need a 2/3 majority. What they need is a acceptable constitution. Next, you are missing my point and Chennette’s point as well (even though you made this comment before I published Chennette’s comment). The Gov’t should not promise us that they know and understand our issues and come into office promising to fix it and then want us to give them hints on how to fix things. They just can’t do that. Right now I seeing another set of people who say they can fix things and I going with them. Frankly, I don’t know what can be done. I am not a security expert. All I know is that people deadin’ and I want it to stop. BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHERS WHO SAY THEY DO KNOW WHAT HAS TO BE DONE. And so I’ve decided I’m going to take a chance with them.
So we don’t vote for the Ministers, but the ministers not working for us still? Let me ask you something. If you are the boss of a company and your subordinates hires a terrible employee, you don’t think you have the right to ask for that employee’s removal? You think the subordinate will tell you the boss, “Watch nah boss, is I wha handling dis stories. You mind yuh own damn business”? JohnBoy, we the voters are the bosses. And if my employee (the MPs) hire the wrong employee and have the audacity to tell me mind my business, I want all and sundry fired.
Anonymous, thanks for the comment. Who in high office illiterate? Shoo-shoo, meh.
By boysieringo on Oct 17, 2007 | Reply
Bandwagonist ask Dooks but it may be already too late for him to step down since nomination day has passed. His ties to Sat & the fact that it will be used against the COP is a PR nightmare in the wings.
Johnboy yuh say things could be better but they could be much worse. Isn’t that the kinda mediocrity de pnm-till-ah-dead down here on de rock does use to rationalise things like executive presidency and increasing crime? Doesn’t it upset you just a little when “free education” translates to the gov’t graduating CEPEP workers from CEPEP-school as they did back in July, with no skills in how to run a landscaping business of their own?
So are we supposed to settle for less because we have “fantasies” of how it could be better? Mani has provided ideas of change in past posts and so have I. My idea for change right now is a change of gov’t. A chance to save this country from the road to hell that Patos is paving with his dreams of never ending oil supplies. A chance to let Winston Dookeran use his expertise in economics (you did mention we seem to lack this basic understanding)to further the progress of T&T. So Johnboy as the spotlight is on you please enlighten us with your ideas for change.
By Anonymous on Oct 17, 2007 | Reply
Mani
Perhaps Johnboy could benefit from some of the free tertiary education and attain a better grasp of english language. It’s easy for someone sitting on the outside to comment based on an occasional visit if he had to deal with the effects of PNM/Patrick’s mismanagement, arrogance and incompetence on a daily basis as evidenced by food prices, traffic, mansions, patients on hospital floors, 2 killings per day and daily protests he would be in a better position to make a worthwhile contribution.
By Anonymous on Oct 17, 2007 | Reply
I think that the people of this country needs to remember that the Government that is voted into power are put there to serve US, not the other way around. People seem to forget that fact and they also seem to forget that they have a choice. Many people choose to “follow the croud” even though they dont’t believe what the croud is doing is right. I say to those people, stand up for yourselves, your country and your beliefs. Educate yourself about what is goin on around you so that you would be able to make an intelligent decision at the end of the day.Also, people of trinidad an Tobago, don’t be fooled by the politcal games that these politicians are playing with your minds.
Mani, thank you for giving us this forumn to speak our minds freely. It is truly refreshing.
By Shivonne on Oct 17, 2007 | Reply
Hi Johnboy, I appreciate your comments on crime etc. Your general position on that, however, seems to be that the government can’t do much about crime because it is a complex phenomenon with myriad causes. I’d like to refer you (perhaps you already know about it as a policeman) to the NYC experience and Broken Window Theory. The point is that you don’t have to address all of the reasons. Disorder at the lowest levels fuels disorder at all levels. In NYC, under the leadership of Comm Bratton and Deputy Comm Jack Maple, they started cracking down on graffiti, public urination and other “petty” crimes and they were able to see a dramatic drop in crime at all levels within a few years. They had a big issue with police corruption and they introduced the Internal Affairs system and corruption has dramatically fallen as well.
Of course we have to find solutions that are culturally relevant, but we have a criminology department at UWI. And it is clear that crime CAN be curbed with competent leadership and respect for new ideas. Prevention is one side of the coin. Detection and punishment form the other. It makes sense that dealing with the latter properly will have an impact on the former.
I would like to refer you as well to the World Bank Caribbean Crime Report 2007. Murder rates in the region are higher than anywhere else in the world. Trinidad has now surpassed Jamaica and has the second highest murder rate in the world. The report points out the shameless detection rate for T&T and there you have one of your major problems. The police are simply not solving crimes. The reasons for that are debatable I’m sure. The ones that they do solve seem to be the crimes of passion that you talk about which are generally unpreventable as you say. These types of crime, however, make up a very small percentage of total crime. The report also outlines suggestions for measures to deal with the situation.
I suppose the gist of what I’m saying is that anyone who has even casually looked into the issue would realise that there IS information on crime in this country and that solutions HAVE been put forward to deal with our particular circumstances. We also have valuable information for viable solutions based on the experiences of other societies. When laughable methods that have failed in other places are the strategies being put in place by our government, one is forced to attribute incompetence, or worse, malevolence. Only biased or uninformed persons can fail to see this.
By Jill on Oct 17, 2007 | Reply
i like all the comments. thanks for clearing up the best PM thing, as I am quite slow.. even though I am in university, my mind does not always work that way. I think everyone de constructed and analyzed Johnboy’s comments well enough !
I also agree with shivonne, crime has other factors the government can fix. It starts with getting youth off the street and doing productive things, and making sure evidence is processed correctly, not lost, etc.. (just two random things they could do!)
Trinidadians have the right to vote in people they chose, and if MP’s can’t live up to their promises, an MP has no right to represent Trinidadians anymore.
Btw, nice one to the 2nd anon. who suggested Johnboy take advantage of the tertiary education being free. I don’t think he can though, must you be a permanent resident to receive free university schooling ?
By ed on Oct 18, 2007 | Reply
Do people like Johnboy really think that the problem with crime is going to be magically solved by constitutional changes and the CCJ? Please. That’s a fantasy. I understand the deperation to hang people, just so you feel that someone is being held responsible, but it’s not likely to do any good. It’s not like crime stopped increasing after they (illegally) hanged Glen Ashby in 1994, or after they made Trinidad look bloodthristy by hanging the gang of 9 in 1999. All the death penalties in the world won’t do anything if (1) people still feel desperately poor and (2) your chances of getting caught are still slim, due to police incompetence.
Sure, solving crime is difficult, but there are some things you can do. Shivonne talked about broken windows theory… I have *serious* doubts about that, but there are other parts of the NYC experience that may apply… hire more cops, and employ technology to figure out where to put them (these were both actually done by Dinkins, who actually cut crime every year he was in office, but doesn’t get any credit… but that’s another debate). Give the police better equipment. Pay more to get BETTER OFFICERS and (hopefully!) less corruption within the force. Bring in someone foreign who has no connections to come in and clean up the force… None of these things requires a 2/3 majority, none of them is complicated, and they have all been done before. So why nothing from the PNM?
Now the REALLY hard part is working on the drug trade. I once had a post about trying to use some basic economics to change people’s decision calculus and break the backs of the gangs. Without a certain amount of community support, these gangs will find their lives much harder. I haven’t seen much on that front either!
All in all, the main problem is that I just don’t see Manning or Panday being willing to try new ideas, because they are arrogant and incurious people. Dooks strikes me as a little better, so I’m trying to be cautiously optimistic. Mani, what you saying about the polls from yesterday? Some truth to them, or more Selwyn Ryan dodginess ala 1991?
By Shivonne on Oct 18, 2007 | Reply
I submit that watchdogs are what’s RIGHT about our society, and any democratic naiton for that matter
By TriniObserver on Oct 19, 2007 | Reply
anonymous,
Did we really have to bring George Bush into this?
Since we’re in the process here of talking about “the” problem with Trinidad and Tobago, let me put that high on the list:
–Blaming the USA for everything.
First it was “Cable TV” (remember?), now it’s “George Bush”.
If you do not own your own problems, you will never be able to solve them. How on earth can all of your problems be somebody else’s fault?
That said, crime is still solved today by old-fashioned police work not technology (although it escapes me how we have reached 2007 and only now made it legal to take DNA samples from criminals).
We need (vastly) better police training, more accountability and more policemen (in that order).
But, longer-term–among many other things–we need to relieve people of the notion that they have a right to other people’s stuff “just because”.
By Chennette on Oct 19, 2007 | Reply
Mani, I was going to comment yesterday and echo JohnBoy, saying I reach if The Manicou quoting me in comments
but now I worrying for my anonymity… Lilandra show somebody her blog and they ask her “You related to CHENNETTE?” You never really know who does live online. Man. This country too small. For all I know, you are one of my neighbours…
By Lilandra on Oct 19, 2007 | Reply
LOOK! I hear! I not blocked for the time being!
http://lilandra.com/blog/archives/2007/10/17/o-woe-is-me-blogs-i-cant-access/
Also…I think Mani in Couva South because he so worried about Devant Maharaj being a candidate!
By Lilandra on Oct 20, 2007 | Reply
geez i can’t spell
s/hear/here