Comments on: No Indians in Advertisements? http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html Like a Police Boots on Yuh Corn Wed, 03 Mar 2010 16:22:04 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Interested http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1411 Interested Mon, 28 May 2007 19:53:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1411 Do individuals from countries such as Africa, India, China, Korea i.e. developing countries, respond better (more sales) to images that portray “successful, white individuals” rather than images of their own peer group or those of other groups? The reason I ask this is as follows. During a marketing meeting, discussing the images to be used in an up-coming ad campaign, I was pretty much told that the images needed to be of white, wealthy, sophisticated and successful types. I should point out that no famous people were to be used, just white models who exhibited these characteristics. When I questioned this; pointing out that much of their market was indeed the groups they intended to exclude from the picture shot, I was given the following reason. Images portraying “successful looking white people” are aspirational to our target market (African, Indian, Chinese .Korean etc). Put another way I was told that people in these fast growing economies want to join the club, which I took to refer to “white, developed, Northern countries!. Although unhappy, with this reasoning, I did not have any hard evidence to refute what they claim to be the facts of the marketplace and years of experience.<br/><br/>I realise this is not strictly on topic but hope to gain any insight on this issue others have. Do individuals from countries such as Africa, India, China, Korea i.e. developing countries, respond better (more sales) to images that portray “successful, white individuals” rather than images of their own peer group or those of other groups? The reason I ask this is as follows. During a marketing meeting, discussing the images to be used in an up-coming ad campaign, I was pretty much told that the images needed to be of white, wealthy, sophisticated and successful types. I should point out that no famous people were to be used, just white models who exhibited these characteristics. When I questioned this; pointing out that much of their market was indeed the groups they intended to exclude from the picture shot, I was given the following reason. Images portraying “successful looking white people” are aspirational to our target market (African, Indian, Chinese .Korean etc). Put another way I was told that people in these fast growing economies want to join the club, which I took to refer to “white, developed, Northern countries!. Although unhappy, with this reasoning, I did not have any hard evidence to refute what they claim to be the facts of the marketplace and years of experience.

I realise this is not strictly on topic but hope to gain any insight on this issue others have.

]]> By: Fed-up http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1410 Fed-up Tue, 01 May 2007 17:20:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1410 Trinidad just has too many people to represent them all and please everyone. I'm a white guy; I certainly don't see any of us in advertisments; well, obviously foreign ones, but I'm not a foreigner, am I? I don't see the chinese either. Mostly it's mixed people: I think that's fine. I don't think it should matter; if you're gonna complain you don't see anyone of a particular race, then you're gonna further divide up a country along lines that shouldn't exist. Why can't people accept that we're all Trinidadian, and the best average of us all is someone who is red-skinned? If you look very closely at everyone, you'll see we are actually are all somewhat red; there are very few pure descended people left. If anything, I think we should see less ignorant people in advertising; it would be nice to see some people with intelligence. I guess it's for who you're marketing to. Trinidad just has too many people to represent them all and please everyone. I’m a white guy; I certainly don’t see any of us in advertisments; well, obviously foreign ones, but I’m not a foreigner, am I? I don’t see the chinese either. Mostly it’s mixed people: I think that’s fine. I don’t think it should matter; if you’re gonna complain you don’t see anyone of a particular race, then you’re gonna further divide up a country along lines that shouldn’t exist. Why can’t people accept that we’re all Trinidadian, and the best average of us all is someone who is red-skinned? If you look very closely at everyone, you’ll see we are actually are all somewhat red; there are very few pure descended people left. If anything, I think we should see less ignorant people in advertising; it would be nice to see some people with intelligence. I guess it’s for who you’re marketing to.

]]> By: Anonymous http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1409 Anonymous Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:59:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1409 allyuh eh remember denise belfon had ah song called 'tonite ah looking for an indian man'? and d man she had wining (in a tight red speedos no less; thank heavans no less) was a reds. i mean how hard it is to find ah indian fella in he jockey shorts? shiva have mercy allyuh eh remember denise belfon had ah song called ‘tonite ah looking for an indian man’? and d man she had wining (in a tight red speedos no less; thank heavans no less) was a reds. i mean how hard it is to find ah indian fella in he jockey shorts? shiva have mercy

]]> By: The TriniGourmet http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1408 The TriniGourmet Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:27:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1408 really really interesting and thought provoking! i think advertisers in TnT don't just look for 'lighter skinned' representatives though, but those who look as multi-ethnic as possible. Which is great for those who fit that look, but pretty alienating for everyone else. But I guess that's what the world of advertising is all about :P It's never been about representing what any society actually looks like :( really really interesting and thought provoking! i think advertisers in TnT don’t just look for ‘lighter skinned’ representatives though, but those who look as multi-ethnic as possible. Which is great for those who fit that look, but pretty alienating for everyone else. But I guess that’s what the world of advertising is all about :P It’s never been about representing what any society actually looks like :(

]]> By: TriniObserver http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1407 TriniObserver Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:29:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1407 This is not only a Trinidadian problem--it's an American (and even Asian/Indian) one as well.<br/><br/>Asian men are not seen as models of masculinity in any form--be they East Asian or South Asian--so they tend to be absent in advertising in the United States as well.<br/>Let's not even mention movies and television shows, where they often take the most "inoffensive", minor and effeminate roles of all.<br/><br/>Then there is India (and other Asian coutires) where it is better to look more "white" than "Asian". Advertising images are heavily Westernized as far as men are concerned.<br/><br/>There are a million and one reasons for this, but who would have thought Anand Ramlogan could be right about something? This is not only a Trinidadian problem–it’s an American (and even Asian/Indian) one as well.

Asian men are not seen as models of masculinity in any form–be they East Asian or South Asian–so they tend to be absent in advertising in the United States as well.
Let’s not even mention movies and television shows, where they often take the most “inoffensive”, minor and effeminate roles of all.

Then there is India (and other Asian coutires) where it is better to look more “white” than “Asian”. Advertising images are heavily Westernized as far as men are concerned.

There are a million and one reasons for this, but who would have thought Anand Ramlogan could be right about something?

]]> By: 'rah http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1406 'rah Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:43:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1406 I'm wondering if the ad agencies' idea of representing diversity is to use mixed models rather than individual models each of a different race. Is it in a handbook somewhere? I’m wondering if the ad agencies’ idea of representing diversity is to use mixed models rather than individual models each of a different race. Is it in a handbook somewhere?

]]> By: Mani http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1405 Mani Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:46:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1405 <b>Ed</b> - I've also wondered too if Indians were underrepresented in ad agencies. I think that could have something to do with it.<br/><br/><b>Chennette</b> - I think that's true, maybe ads specifically made for T&T may (and should) be more inclusive. However I also have to wonder where are all these Indian-owned businesses who also advertise, don't they have a say in the matter too?<br/><br/><b>Crankyputz</b> - well that is for sure. It's even more apparent in the movies. Who's the darkest film star out there? Salman Khan?<br/><br/><b>Fed up & Deniece</b> - It's true that not everything is about race, but living in in Trinidad, unfortunately quite often it is. Ignoring it doesn't make it any less true, or even disappear. Indians are a majority in T&T, yet faces of Indian men in ads and TV commericlas are all but non-existent. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't that bother you just a little?<br/><br/><b>Afrobella</b> - The different McDonald's ads for MTV and BET have been a staple for other advertisers also. I think the good thing about that is that McDonalds recognizes that people want to be represented. This may also be a form of pandering, but I think that it's a lot more acceptable that it's polar opposite.<br/><br/><b>Saucy</b> - I remember you writing about the carnival costume models in the past and I have written about it in the past also. You would think that beauty was only for the light-skinned. I think that they read your blog and listen to you, so hopefully they will change their behaviour. True, sometimes it does boil down to race.<br/><br/><b>CP</b> - thanks for your compliment. Sometimes we have to learn to separate the things that are true from the things we want to believe. And trust me that is easier said than done and I'm still learning as I go along. Even though I am not Mr. Ramlogan's fan I had no choice but to agree with him. Ed – I’ve also wondered too if Indians were underrepresented in ad agencies. I think that could have something to do with it.

Chennette – I think that’s true, maybe ads specifically made for T&T may (and should) be more inclusive. However I also have to wonder where are all these Indian-owned businesses who also advertise, don’t they have a say in the matter too?

Crankyputz – well that is for sure. It’s even more apparent in the movies. Who’s the darkest film star out there? Salman Khan?

Fed up & Deniece – It’s true that not everything is about race, but living in in Trinidad, unfortunately quite often it is. Ignoring it doesn’t make it any less true, or even disappear. Indians are a majority in T&T, yet faces of Indian men in ads and TV commericlas are all but non-existent. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn’t that bother you just a little?

Afrobella – The different McDonald’s ads for MTV and BET have been a staple for other advertisers also. I think the good thing about that is that McDonalds recognizes that people want to be represented. This may also be a form of pandering, but I think that it’s a lot more acceptable that it’s polar opposite.

Saucy – I remember you writing about the carnival costume models in the past and I have written about it in the past also. You would think that beauty was only for the light-skinned. I think that they read your blog and listen to you, so hopefully they will change their behaviour. True, sometimes it does boil down to race.

CP – thanks for your compliment. Sometimes we have to learn to separate the things that are true from the things we want to believe. And trust me that is easier said than done and I’m still learning as I go along. Even though I am not Mr. Ramlogan’s fan I had no choice but to agree with him.

]]> By: CP http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1404 CP Thu, 12 Apr 2007 21:28:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1404 Manicou, I admire how even though you did not like the article author and the topics he writes on, you still maanged to consider what he wrote and agree on it after finding it does have some merit. <br/><br/>In general, I find that despite the boasts of and existence of multiculturalism and diversity in society, many Trinis do tend to have a preference for light-skin whether it's girls or advertising or identity.<br/><br/>The fact that Ramlogan writes about these things openly and people can discuss and debate them, that is positive for society. Trying to hold back or deny issues and pretend they don't exist is not.<br/><br/>Take care. Manicou, I admire how even though you did not like the article author and the topics he writes on, you still maanged to consider what he wrote and agree on it after finding it does have some merit.

In general, I find that despite the boasts of and existence of multiculturalism and diversity in society, many Trinis do tend to have a preference for light-skin whether it’s girls or advertising or identity.

The fact that Ramlogan writes about these things openly and people can discuss and debate them, that is positive for society. Trying to hold back or deny issues and pretend they don’t exist is not.

Take care.

]]> By: saucydiva http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1403 saucydiva Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:15:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1403 I can certainly see his point, just as I have often wondered why there are not many African looking females in ads in Trinidad. And by that I mean girls/women with darker skin,full lips, kinky hair and wider noses. The ones who do pass the grade are usually lighter skin with more European features and that is a fact. Just look at the models used to display Carnival costumes and you will see evidence of this.<br/><br/>I have done one ad and was the only black female along with another elderly gentleman.Everyone else on the set was "red" or "mixed" and yet we were supposed to represent a family :S. I can also attest there were no Indian males or females featured in the ad. My hubby also did an ad through the same advertising company, he fits the "red" mold and again they were looking for persons to represent the cosmopolitain makeup of Trinidad yet there was not one Indian person represented!! <br/><br/>So, as sad as it is to say, sometimes it does all boil down to race. I can certainly see his point, just as I have often wondered why there are not many African looking females in ads in Trinidad. And by that I mean girls/women with darker skin,full lips, kinky hair and wider noses. The ones who do pass the grade are usually lighter skin with more European features and that is a fact. Just look at the models used to display Carnival costumes and you will see evidence of this.

I have done one ad and was the only black female along with another elderly gentleman.Everyone else on the set was “red” or “mixed” and yet we were supposed to represent a family :S. I can also attest there were no Indian males or females featured in the ad. My hubby also did an ad through the same advertising company, he fits the “red” mold and again they were looking for persons to represent the cosmopolitain makeup of Trinidad yet there was not one Indian person represented!!

So, as sad as it is to say, sometimes it does all boil down to race.

]]> By: afrobella http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1402 afrobella Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:23:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1402 Ah, Jonathan. Thank you! I knew someone more erudite than me would know! Ah, Jonathan. Thank you! I knew someone more erudite than me would know!

]]> By: Jonathan http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1401 Jonathan Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:57:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1401 Naipaul wrote about advertising in the chapter on Trinidad in his book, the Middle Passage. Naipaul wrote about advertising in the chapter on Trinidad in his book, the Middle Passage.

]]> By: Deniece http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1400 Deniece Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:36:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1400 I agree...why does everything have to be about race? It's ridiculous really... I agree…why does everything have to be about race? It’s ridiculous really…

]]> By: afrobella http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1399 afrobella Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:25:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1399 Mani,<br/>I remember Naipaul had written about advertising images in Trinidad YEARS ago, and when I get a chance I will try to find his chapter. I don't even remember what book it was in, but he addressed how the darkest of Trinis are only used in tire commercials and in general it's all about pseudo-whiteness. And Naipaul being Naipaul, I am sure it made mention of the lack of Indians in advertising. Worth a read and when I find it I will share. I am always fascinated by ad studies -- here in the States they'll have a white McDonalds ad for MTV and a black one for BET. Weird. Mani,
I remember Naipaul had written about advertising images in Trinidad YEARS ago, and when I get a chance I will try to find his chapter. I don’t even remember what book it was in, but he addressed how the darkest of Trinis are only used in tire commercials and in general it’s all about pseudo-whiteness. And Naipaul being Naipaul, I am sure it made mention of the lack of Indians in advertising. Worth a read and when I find it I will share. I am always fascinated by ad studies — here in the States they’ll have a white McDonalds ad for MTV and a black one for BET. Weird.

]]> By: Fed-up http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1398 Fed-up Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:10:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1398 Why every thing has to be about race, color, etc, etc.....I am so tired with the race card. Why every thing has to be about race, color, etc, etc…..I am so tired with the race card.

]]> By: Crankyputz http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html/comment-page-1#comment-1397 Crankyputz Mon, 09 Apr 2007 19:18:00 +0000 http://themanicoureport.com/2007/04/no-indians-in-advertisements.html#comment-1397 We Indian's do this too. The majority of Indians are dark skinned, but you never see them in the ads, or comercials, all you ever see are the fair skinned, light eyed women/men....tis sad.... We Indian’s do this too. The majority of Indians are dark skinned, but you never see them in the ads, or comercials, all you ever see are the fair skinned, light eyed women/men….tis sad….

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